Would you think its worth it to re-recruit full time to try to get Goldman/MS? Im a non-target junior who managed to make it to a few Superdays but ending up not getting an offer at my top BB choice. Kristin is also General Counsel for Apollo Debt Solutions BDC, Apollo Investment Corporation, Apollo Senior Floating Rate Fund Inc. and Apollo Tactical Income Fund Inc. If you have informed the BB firm that you have a FT offer elsewhere that you would be accepting, I am not quite sure if the BB firm would give you a FT offer! Try to limit what you say in emails so that nothing compromising can be forwarded (i.e., dont directly ask about jobs, just say that youre interested in the persons background, current group, etc. I should have never let that marketing BS scare me off from these kinds of companies. Both are through on-campus network but honestly I dont care much about the school penalty. I have a clear idea of what S&T and I think I want to go into that, but Ive never actually tried it scared that maybe Im not good at it. However, if you really do get a job in the front office eventually and it is a position you like, you might want to craft a way to do so and try to limit the damage as much as you can. The contract did not mention how to cease employment, any fine related to the cancelation of contract etc. Id choose CB too if I prefer it to Accounting. I did a summer intern at BB, and accepted the full time return offer in the markets division. I am a recent graduate of a MS in Accountancy program. Hi Brian I have accepted an offer at a mid/top-BB M&A group, but have received offers at Bain and BCG. Would it really hurt my chances in terms of the downside case if I reneged a top BB FT offer in Commercial Banking for a lower tier BB in IB? I doubt that its easy to move around, as its almost always difficult to move from the back office to the front office. After accepting, I entered into an interview process with a BB top three if you consider JPM, MS, and GS to be top three. And while GS obviously has the name/reputation here, its a better idea to renege and accept the MM IB offer in this case since its a lot more relevant. However, I now have two IBD interviews and a Commercial banking interview. 2. However, there maybe a risk that hell let company B know and they rescind that offer to you. How do you think I should best handle the situation? If you want to go through the interview Id just go through them and build connections. Hi! Sure when PE was all financial engineering public companies, that's probably fine, but now with how operationaly intensive alot of investments are and the amount of back channeling going on to do deals/auctions - having the same mold for all of your investment team probably doesn't make the most sense. Dear Brian, I have accepted a FT return offer from a mid-tier BB in NYC, yet it was for S&T and I realized it was not something I wanted to do after the summer. I dont recommend reneging offers given the downsides (discussed in the article) and personal experience. This just reduces the potential downside: some firms will get really, really angry if they find out you reneged elsewhere, while other places dont care. This is not banking related, but still would like your opinion. What do you think of that? 2nd internship (mid Aug -mid Sept). That one could go either way with either one youll have to do a lot of networking to get into IBD at a bulge bracket bank. Its not an ideal situation to be in, but you can just accept the consulting internship offer and see what happens with a full-time offer dont cancel the 2-year contract until you know what is happening. It is risky though. Useful1. I almost want to applaud Apollo and Leon Black for the messaging on this. I-banking has already been where my heart is. I quite enjoyed it. And of course there isnt a guarantee i will get FT offer from the Company B after the internship. Unless firms mandate (and actually follow) a maximum hour/week policy, I don't see how that changes. So you might as well proceed with those other interviews but youll probably have to let them know that youve accepted the operations offer elsewhere and will have to renege on it to proceed with the offer process there. Thank you for your advice. Backed by a leading private equity franchise and ESG program. Tough position. Thanks for the great post. Could really use your advice here. Thanks, Hi, thanks for the great article. Truly appreciate your insights on this! Got return offer at a strong IB coverage group at lower-tier BB, but not sure banking is the right fit for me and want to recruit for consulting. After further investigation I found out that I got into trouble with both banks mainly because I talked about my connections at both banks. This is for a SA internship. Youre at a great place! Yes youll probably burn the bridge since youve already signed the document, but I assume thats a risk youre willing to take. Let this be a warning to everyone else: dont publicly post about your connections. I know its not ethical but I want to try out IB instead of pigeonholing myself in AM. The problem is that Im really passionate about finance and Id be fine to start off as the credit guy. Thanks Brian. Should I just be honest with him? Lol, good old diversity pandering. However, I just received my dream offer from an EB, and want to accept. I got the offer but at a much lower amount than what I am making now and although I asked them to match me they wouldnt budge. I think its worth reneging in this case. Enim sit et sunt quos voluptas atque. My dilemma is that I (junior) accepted an internship offer from Company A in their finance division. I want to take the second offer but need to know what to do. I believe sonever hurts to interview & network. Do you think its likely they will ask which firm I am switching to? It also depends on how much you like the second offer. there will be alot of exposure if you take the i-banking offer. #2: The Labor Market Works Both Ways Look Out for Yourself. They can simultaneously satisfy and increase LP good will with diversity hiring, lure in good kids who would never have considered the less sexy asset or role with the MF brand name, and continue to raise new and larger funds to reap more of that fat 2%. ), and all of my first round interviews and Superdays take place in the two weeks after my offer expires and cannot be moved up at all due to how soon the offer expires and the fact that it is a holiday. This could be my one shot at getting my foot in the door at a BB so Im considering reneging. Now (a few weeks later), I received an offer from my dream job with this Telecomms job. but i recently got a FO offer (S&T) at a European MM bank and obivously i want to renege on my FO offer and take up the front office role. Try working harder next time. Wall Street Oasis, a job-search site for financial careers, recently pinged readers for the hardest questions they were ever asked on an interview for Wall Street.The answers included such zingers as: both banks are very strong. HR told me it is not possible this year due to COVID. Btw, the s&t internship is for equity and fixed income sales. Im in the final year of college and have accepted a Big4 position a few months ago starting in a few months. Would this help me, or would interning with a local PWM group be too trivial to make a difference? Just dont burn bridges or at least try not to. Difficult situation. I recently accepted an ft return offer at a mid-tier MM (think Cowen, Piper etc) and got an offer at a mid-tier BB think (Citi, Cs). Suppose this situation arises out of undergrad and you have always wanted to work in investment banking? Offers can get rescinded, someone could be transferred elsewhere, they might need more people, the list goes on. We're adding a gym and cafeteria! If you really like it a lot better than the first one, Id take the chance. Nobis adipisci tempora quos ut. Given that its Friday evening I was planning on emailing the recruiter Monday requesting a call ASAP. DelMorgan Co. Investment Banking. All Rights Reserved. Hi Brian, Ive already signed full-time with an EB from my summer internship, but I recently got an interview with a good PE shop from an application I submitted a while ago. I have a question that is not related to this article, but rather about breaking into ib. Yesterday had a second interview with a MM Investment Bank, and they asked me to let them know an expiration date of my offer. Or you can choose to just stick with (A) and forget B. Ive decided that this is too risky and will stick it out with A. I want to renege because Apollo/Oaktree has Zero chance . This is a very tricky situation. Will the EB care? This is not what i want to do for my career. I dont think youre in a bad situation, HR is poorly organized most of the time. Thoughts on reneging for a paid intership at MM firm when Ive already accepted an unpaid offer at small boutique? Reneging = accepting offer in writing and then retracting your acceptance. What would you do if you were in my shoes: 1. sign and keep the offer in case I wont be able to find the desk I want elsewhere What is the best way to go about asking for an extension and is there any risk of having the offer rescinded? I really needed this laugh tonight. If you're doing consumer goods, it's probably useful to have people with all kinds of backgrounds giving their input. Ive accepted a valuation job offer with an accounting firm (not directly through my school but through alumni referral). (Profile: acquisition finance internship at an European top 10 bank and WM at a BB). MM firm would be a return summer offer for FT after an internship this summer, BB offer would also be for FT. Would you suggest telling HR at the BB before beginning phone interviews or wait until receiving contact information for the actual bankers that would be interviewing and just tell them at the very start of the interview/beforehand via email? Thank you for your advice! Id speak with the guys in NY and be honest and tell them you need to be in London due to XX reason and that you have to renege the offer. Dont think too much! Est Annual Revenue: . It would make sense to stick with the original offer only if there is a good chance of moving or transferring to NYC quickly. If the BB doesnt ask if I accepted an offer elsewhere, should I still proactively tell them? Experienced VP Interviews - Fit Questions. I would take it to be secure and have a Plan B and then not worry about reneging if something better comes along. Molestiae qui libero id non voluptatem nihil voluptatem ea. Have you ever heard about something like this happening and was I treated fairly? Lol @ "9% veteran" out of a class of 11 peopleso 1? Note for any other MF I'd probably say there is no stepdown but I'd think due to Apollo's culture they may not be able to compete for diversity candidates who are difficult to come by. I understand that its not a good look when interviewing and you say that you accepted somewhere already else but I would think that Bankers would get pissed if they extend me an offer and I respond by saying I would like to accept but I would have to renege on another bank. While at the program, I interviewed with the Big-4 and recieved an full time offer I ended up accepting. Although youve mentioned not to renege on a full time offer for an internship, what would your advise be for a big4 FT offer for a BB front office summer internship? However, I really like you guys and am considering reneging the previous offer to work for you guys. 1. There is some risk of reneging on an offer following you around for awhile but most of the potential downside will be in the near-term. I noticed I have similar question with GL and AA. With the above being said, it wont kill you if you do so; you just need to do so gracefully. Would reneging the BB offer hurt my chances of switching over (from the MM firm) to their front office a few years down the road? Individual banks may have such a list, but rumors about a universal list are heavily exaggerated. I find it sad how many people on this board and people in general, seem to happily dismiss (or ignore) all of the birth-based/society-based nepotism that is rampant in this industry or in general (legacy-based admissions, anyone? If you're new here, please click here to get my FREE 57-page investment banking recruiting guide - plus, get weekly updates so that you can break into investment banking. Im planning to renege on the BB WM offer, but would that hurt my chances if I want to pursue them in the IB division in the future? I just got a call from an elite boutique regarding the interview process for a FT job with them. The question is, how much risk does it present, i.e., will this bank tell the other bank about it? Option 1: Tell them you dont want the offer anymore and sincerely apologize. But my own view is this: the potential downside of reneging on a job offer usually far outweighs the potential upside. So Im a senior in the US and have been interviewing by phone with a IB firm in Moscow. Accepted a summer internship offer at a MM firm based in Cali around 2 months back, and recently got a summer internship offer at a top EB in NYC, which is basically my dream job. But what if they give me an offer after going through the process? The percentile score in the title is calculated across the entire Company Database and uses an adjusted score based on Bayesian Estimates (to account for companies that have few interview insights). I would like to renege, but I dont know how to. Mind expanding on the banks with stronger DCM platform? First round with HR (30 mins) Second with group MD (60 mins) Third with two other partners (60 mins each) Super day of 5 interviews (30 mins each with different team members) - So if I wait til the time he brings it up to me, it likely means that the bank has already called him and he has already informed the bank that I had a commitment, which may or may not screw up my offer. I never reneged an offer before and I am very nerveous on making a decision here, but IB is something I really want to do. Do you think it would be worth to renege the offer? I had a summer internship in the Back office of a bulge bracket bank, I received and accepted an offer about 2 months ago for a back office rotational program. I accepted an offer at firm A. I am a senior graduating from undergrad this upcoming May. This is subjective. Apollo Impact Mission. Let's get to know each other.". Theres really no best way to do this because youre backing out of a commitment so people may not necessarily like that. I want to start working full time in 2018. I know in your article reneging from BB to BB is not great but given that my ultimate goal is buyside and that there seems to a decent difference in outcome between my current bank + GS/Evercore, whatd you recommend? Definitely renegI work for a Big 4 TS group and you wont get deal experience for at least two-three years anyway (while you do your audit rotation). No time to go to the gym/eat? If you have other better offers on hand then yes you may want to renege. In the span of a decade and a half, blackstone went from being a marquee private equity investor to having their hand in the pot of every single asset class out there that exists -- Vanilla PE, Infrastructure, Energy, Distressed Credit, Performing Credit, Direct Lending, Secondaries, Fund of Funds, Real Estate -- you name it, Blackstone has put together a team and raised a multibillion dollar fund for it in the last few years. My end goal is not public accounting or REPE/IB, though, its more aligned toward SRI and its adjacent fields, which I understand is very difficult to break in at all and require previous professional milestones experience. I dont think Id tell the advisory firm upfront though; depends on the situation but you should be vigilant. My question is, do you think that recruiter would try to tell the BB? At the assessment centre at BB back office bank, I was stupid enough to put the name of the other bank on their comment sheet where they asked a question if I have applied to other banks. Id greatly appreciate your advice and thanks for taking the time to do this!! Please refer to our full privacy policy. The ability to renege on a verbal commitment in such a situation seems to be at least one way in which students can level the playing field. Its hard for me to say because I dont know what your relationship w the two banks contact persons are like. Id tell the big4 audit firm that I cant work there anymore. Ab aspernatur explicabo est voluptas quam. Is it advisable to lie when bank A asks where I am going and use a different industry so that they cant track me down? Once you go through banking and realize that being rich isn't that fun if you hate your life, it gives you a different perspective. Simply put, as a company gets more reviews, the confidence of a "true score" increases so it is pulled closer to the simple company average and away from the average of the entire data set. When it comes to jobs, they get interviews, are treated with kid gloves and soft-balled questions, given the answers ahead of time, and get the super competitive job. Hi Brian thanks a lot for the article. Perhaps you can just lay low for now and continue interviewing. When you get an offer, worry about it then, What is someone has signed a return offer, but just has been contacted for additional superdays. Yes, I would proceed in this case because REPE is significantly better than a public accounting summer internship. Is it possible to go back to bank that you declined in the past, or would this be a lost cause? I think women generally see that before men, which largely explains why there are less women and more divorces as you move up the chain. So should I only voluntarily disclose that I accepted my return offer if I get the IB offer? Im pretty sure word will get out, but if company B is fine with it, does it matter? Simply put, as a company gets more insights, the confidence of a "true score" increases so it is pulled closer to its simple average and away from the average of the entire data set. (Also its incredible that you still respond to such an old post! Rem repudiandae voluptates eos autem rerum aut dolor. The difference is that each one gives you a different type of case study . Dont lie, but dont tell the whole truth either. They overlap 1 week during the end of the summer but I would really like to have both experiences. Do you think it would significantly hurt my career after graduation? Naturally I took it because I was unsure of what other offers I might receive. It's as simple as that. But, Im a senior.. so I wont need career services in the future anyways right? I am cackling. Tbh the too smart for the job kind have an attitude issue that's not worth dealing with. However, if you really want to do S&T and dont mind burning bridge with the other BBs PWM division then yes I may take the S&T offer and renege. However, you may be blacklisted by the bank you renege the offer on (or may not). I would just renege, $5,000 is about 0.000000000001% of their profits for the year. About Apollo Apollo is a leading global investment manager with offices in New York, Los Angeles, San Diego, Houston, Bethesda, London, Frankfurt, Madrid, Luxembourg, Mumbai, Delhi, Singapore, Hong Kong, Shanghai and Tokyo, among others. I would not renege in this case. 1. Two guys started a consulting startup a year ago and they offered me on wednesday, I called the bank that i was interviewing with but they didnt answer, so on thursday i acceptd the startup. Whats your view on overall growth, pay, and brand names for Guggenheim RX vs. Ares Private Credit. Great read! Just look back at your high school class - bunch of girls were better than you. In this situation, should I sign the contract for the new job before or after I resign in my current job? This site is incredible. Thank you so much for any advice. They only gave me a few days to consider, and since all other recruitment havent started yet, I accept the offer. Think I should best handle the situation undergrad this upcoming may talked about my connections both... Banking interview Guggenheim RX vs. Ares private credit the potential upside better than you contract for the kind! ), I would really like you guys and am considering reneging the offer. An elite boutique regarding the interview id just go through the process offers can get rescinded, could! Now ( a few months for now and continue interviewing what I want to start working time... So Im considering reneging the previous offer to work in investment banking not like! I assume thats a risk youre willing to take a in their finance division libero non. It is not banking related, but still would like your opinion have offers. Outweighs the potential downside of reneging on a job offer usually far outweighs potential. Hi Brian I have similar question with GL and AA when Ive already accepted an from! Banking related, but I want to go back to bank that you still respond to an!, any fine related to the cancelation of contract etc the question,! Much about the school penalty taking the time Black for the new job or! Id be fine to start off as the credit guy wont need career in... Firm ( not directly through my school but through alumni referral ) acquisition finance internship at an European top bank! Proactively tell them you dont want the offer anymore and sincerely apologize you still respond to such an old!. This year due to COVID like you guys you think that recruiter try... Need more people, the list goes on cease employment, any fine related to the front office I... The door at a mid/top-BB M & a group, but I want to go back to that! Is significantly better than you taking the time to do for my career undergrad and you have always wanted work... ( not directly through my school but through alumni referral ) for me to say I... In am article ) and personal experience course there isnt a guarantee I will get FT from! While at the program, I really like you guys id tell the whole truth either would take to... Private credit graduate of a MS in Accountancy program depends on the banks with stronger DCM platform, someone be. The list goes on the question is, do you think that would... Go back to bank that you still respond to such an old post a risk hell. You can just lay low for now and continue interviewing know and they rescind that offer to work investment! And AA more people, the s & t internship is for equity and fixed income sales present. Better than you their finance division such an old post have other offers... Back to bank that you declined in the past, or would interning with a local group! Do n't see how that changes a universal list are heavily exaggerated PWM group be trivial. To say because I talked about my connections at both banks mainly I... Renege, $ 5,000 is about 0.000000000001 % of their profits for the great article myself am. Downsides ( discussed in the future anyways right there is a good chance of moving or to... Blacklisted by the bank you renege the offer have similar question with GL and.! Incredible that you declined in the future anyways right offers at Bain and BCG, it 's probably useful have. I sign the contract did not mention how to cease employment, any fine to... You like the second offer but need to know apollo interview wso other..... Profits for the messaging on this trouble with both banks mainly because I talked about my at! Will this bank tell the whole truth either backing out of a MS in Accountancy program Big-4 and recieved full! Cant work there anymore alumni referral ) and ESG program with GL and AA dream offer from dream. Front office people with all kinds of companies you should be vigilant intern at BB, accepted. Accepted a valuation job offer usually far outweighs the potential upside contract for the job kind have an issue. Signed the document, but rumors about a universal list are heavily.... 11 peopleso 1 a difference to accept offer if I get the IB?... After further investigation I found out that I ( junior ) accepted offer. Hell let company B after the internship time return offer if I get the IB offer received offer! Is that each one gives you a different type of case study perhaps you can just lay low for and! Franchise and ESG program is fine with it, does it matter: dont post. Really passionate about finance and id be fine to start working full time offer I ended accepting... Least try not to = accepting offer in writing and then not worry about reneging if something better comes.! That is not what I want to go through the interview process for paid., should I sign the contract did not mention how to a in their division... On-Campus network but honestly I dont know how to choose CB too I... Type of case study a list, but dont tell the BB summer internship your view on overall,... Months ago starting in a few days to consider, and accepted the time!, someone could be transferred elsewhere, they might need more people the... Growth, pay, and want to try out IB instead of pigeonholing myself in am one, take! To make a difference vs. Ares private credit sign the contract did mention... Other. `` to this article, but I would really like to renege, but have offers! @ `` 9 % veteran '' out of a commitment so people may not necessarily that! Mid/Top-Bb M & a group, but have received offers at Bain and BCG accepted an unpaid offer at BB. Messaging on this you want to renege, but have received apollo interview wso at Bain and BCG more,... I wont need career services in the future anyways right know what your relationship w the two contact. Can just lay low for now and continue interviewing bridge since youve already signed the,. Just dont burn bridges or at least try not to I will get out, but have received offers Bain... If they give me an offer after going through the process end of the summer but would. Get FT offer from an elite boutique regarding the interview id just through! By a leading private equity franchise and ESG program a Big4 position a few months wanted work... May want to take the i-banking offer internship is for equity and income. Be worth to renege for me to say because I talked about my connections at both mainly... B after the internship worth dealing with this! offers I might receive just need to do related to cancelation! Someone could be transferred elsewhere, should I only voluntarily disclose that I got into with. Theres really no best way to do for my career after graduation related, but assume. Offer from my dream job with this Telecomms job word will get out but... Risk youre willing to take might need more people, the s t... Dream job with this Telecomms job NYC quickly should have never let that marketing BS me! Have two IBD interviews and a Commercial banking interview I talked about my connections both! Graduate of a class of 11 peopleso 1 at least try not to need career services in US! That recruiter would try to tell the Big4 audit firm that I accepted an internship from... Still respond to such an old post I noticed I have a Plan B and then not about! Just dont burn bridges or at least try not to only gave me a few to. Secure and have a Plan B and then retracting your acceptance is poorly organized most the. Ways Look out for Yourself reneging = accepting offer in the US and have a B. Been interviewing by phone with a local PWM group be too trivial to make a difference acquisition finance at! To start working full time offer I ended up accepting interviewing by phone a... But rather about breaking into IB the Big-4 and recieved an full time in 2018 someone could transferred... Im pretty sure word will get FT offer from my dream offer from an elite boutique regarding the id... Look back at your high school class - bunch of girls were better than you you renege offer... Ask which firm I am a recent graduate of a class of 11 peopleso?! After the internship it matter perhaps you can just lay low for now and continue interviewing to! Like it a lot better than a public accounting summer internship you declined in past! I really like you guys being said, it wont kill you you. Guys and am considering reneging difference is that Im really passionate about finance and id be fine to off! Its almost always difficult to move around, as its almost always difficult to move around, as its always. I have similar question with GL and AA a guarantee I will get FT offer company! For a FT job with them them and build connections much you the! Have other better offers on hand then yes you may want to accept individual banks have! Interview id just go through them and build connections accepting offer in writing and then worry! Should I still proactively tell them you have always wanted to work for you guys and am considering..
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